why not use the constitutional power that the house has and isolate the payment -- >> because -- sean, the bill does have to start in the house, you're right. but the senate has the ability to amend it. and the senate democrats have the vote to amend it to send it back to say, okay, we now approve spending for obama care, we took back your exact provisions and we're sending it back to you. >> apparently sensing that he was getting nowhere with the procedural argument, karl rove summarized the politics this way. >> and who gets blamed? does anybody think that the republicans are going to escape being blamed for our troops not being paid, our prison guards not getting paid? our border patrol not being paid? let's not kid ourselves, we'll be blamed. >> joining me now, msnbc's krystal ball and ari melber. what do you think is on the other side of the play here, the republican leadership will get passed among this? >> it is going to have to be something like that. because the rand pauls of the world, the mike lees of the world, the ted cruzs of the world, they are too invested in their fut